Curse

Andemius · Aug 29, 2011, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Hey, since the introduction of Imperial faction, there's more people playing JQ, however, there's some catastrophic problems with it atm, at least as I have observed, from playing it a lot. I realise JQ is probably not high on the agenda, but there are at least 2 problems which really need addressing.

Bots - Now idk how hard it is for GW to spot/ban a bot, but it's blatantly obvious to any half decent player who is running a bot. It's not fun playing against them, and they suck if they're on your team too. Moreover, why haven't they been picked up on? A few months ago we had the Dhuuming going on, whats happened? I'm guessing they're being used to farm zkeys, which is still farming, Anet cared about farming bots, why nothing here?

Leaving Early - I don't want to punish decent players for having to put up with substandard players or bots on their teams, but you should accept, that there are less good players in JQ, running sub-optimal builds. I have a suggestion for this, make leaving instant dishonor, like standing still for too long. If you have to leave to go and do something, fine, you won't care about 30mins of dishonor, but it will discourage leaving just because people don't like their team composition, or how the first 2mins have panned out.

OP Skills - Now, I have only observed one particularly bad skill for OPness, Wastrel's Demise. RoJ is fine, it's easily interupted or healed off, Bombers are easy to kill and strip, but Mesmer cappers running the meta WD, PI, WW, CoF, can cap veyr quickly, but also have great flexibility with these skills for killing/protting also. My suggestion for this is to simply nerf Watrel's Demise - into oblivion if necessary, for PvP. It is the key skill for mesmers in JQ atm, you can cap and kill carriers with ease, even as a secondary mesmer with less than 12 dom. Drop WD, and JQ will be slighlty better balanced - mesmers can cap and kill fine without it.

Well, that's my 2pence, comments?

brawler · Aug 29, 2011, 05:28 AM // 05:28

I do not think leaving early is really that big of a deal in Jade Quarry as the games aren't really that long to begin with. Most games that I have experienced losing team mates was no more then one person. Not saying that there aren't people that haven't had more then one person leave though, just saying that I do not think a dishonour mechanic is necessary.

Also I do not think Mesmers are the largest of problems in JQ either. A few hex removals and they pretty much negated or someone using spells efficiently to combat WW and WD. Rather I believe the NPC AI needs to be greatly increased to combat such things, especially AoE. RoJ, SF, Necro bombers, etc. pretty much register NPC capture points useless because they are standing in blatant AoE and dieing because of it. Reworking the AI rather then the skills of the players (which also have a subsequent effect on other PvP game types too) would be preferred in my eyes.

If carriers are dieing because of a single Mesmer the appears that you need more healers to combat this, not reworking several skills.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 29, 2011, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I play assassin without any op skills and I always win without any problem, just sayin.

drkn · Aug 29, 2011, 09:35 AM // 09:35

A single smiting monk with RoJ can keep up a quarry against another RoJ monk and against bomber. Often heal/prot monks have trouble defending a quarry against a semi-decent mesmer.

Andemius · Aug 29, 2011, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

I do not think leaving early is really that big of a deal in Jade Quarry as the games aren't really that long to begin with. Most games that I have experienced losing team mates was no more then one person. Not saying that there aren't people that haven't had more then one person leave though, just saying that I do not think a dishonour mechanic is necessary.

Most games when it doesn't appear than my team is winning greatly within 3 minutes, I end up with a leaver, and people usually follow that, up to around 3 in total, any more would be unusual. It's obv similar to the attitude of leaving in RA, however, by leaving your killing the chances of your team winning. They're now down one party member that could have been a decent player instead.

Quote:

Also I do not think Mesmers are the largest of problems in JQ either. A few hex removals and they pretty much negated or someone using spells efficiently to combat WW and WD. Rather I believe the NPC AI needs to be greatly increased to combat such things, especially AoE. RoJ, SF, Necro bombers, etc. pretty much register NPC capture points useless because they are standing in blatant AoE and dieing because of it. Reworking the AI rather then the skills of the players (which also have a subsequent effect on other PvP game types too) would be preferred in my eyes.

The AI on the bases is not brilliant, i agree, but I'm not proposing changing lots of skills, purley WD, which can be used by nearly any proff (warriors would struggle) and kicks out armor ignoring damage. More monks isn't the solution, just as an example, i had a team with 3 monks yesterday (one was healer), and none of them seemed to want to help escort the purple carrier (I play luxon generally) back across the map. Monks would only combat this if people play them well, like any profession really. More on the AI ect, you could have the HP on them increased, i think they only have around 330, which would make them harder to kill.

Quote:

I play assassin without any op skills and I always win without any problem, just sayin.

Well that's good for you, I play assassin mainly, but whether I win depends heavily on whether the rest of my team are reasonable or not.

Quote:

A single smiting monk with RoJ can keep up a quarry against another RoJ monk and against bomber. Often heal/prot monks have trouble defending a quarry against a semi-decent mesmer.

That's my point exactly. I don't think mesmers needed the buff they were given a while back, especially in PvP, but I'm not gonna complain about that - other than WD.

X CDH X · Aug 29, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Well I do quite a bit of JQ and it is kinda annoying when people are running crappy builds - 2 people on here have posted that they play assassin out of 4 previous posts - WT*!!!!!!!! Melee are pretty much useless in JQ unless you have a shrine and want to take out people who come to cap. Even then that is pointless as it's unlikely you can cap it back within seconds......

I mainly play Mo/P RoJ build there and sometimes I seem to be the only person with 'heals' so you can guess how those games end.

I love it when there is like 3+ Mo/x and some N/A or Mesmers for clearing shrines/defending. I mainly focus on either a build to wipe shrines asap or a heal/prot bar to defend if I am sync with mates.

Another annoying thing is before I was taking Make Haste (Taking FB now) and casting that on someone to run hard at the yellow shrine but sometimes they were being reatrded and I would overtake them even without a IMS - Run faast bitches!!!!!!!!!!

Prestige · Aug 29, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Mesmers are good, they are Over powered.
I play mesmers when I PvP.

I am not crying nor raging.
But the mesmer class is the ONLY class that you need skills (real life skills) to play with. Not everyone can interrupt. It's easy to bring minions to life. Click w.e skill you use and wait for it to appear. I do not think they need to be nerfed. Other class should be buffed. Nothing more.

Andemius · Aug 29, 2011, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Melee are pretty much useless in JQ

Whaaaat? Warriors maybe, but dervs can cap (im yet to see it done effeciently), and sins are excellent for taking down cappers such as roj monks and mesmers, but you can kill carriers and keep healers busy which teammates are capping. I'd say a sin played well is far from useless.

FB! and MH! are fine, sometimes you just don't get a competent person to run with.

Quote:

But the mesmer class is the ONLY class that you need skills (real life skills) to play with

I like that mesmers need a bit of common sense to play properly, expecially with skills such as aneyurism, but i'd hesitate to say you need real life skills to play it any more that another profession. I'm not sure that buffing everything else to the OP level of mesmers is a good idea. I know para's aren't great in pvp, and i heard something about a buff for them, but that's a different matter. The problem, or at least my problem with mesmers, is the OPness of WD in JQ, where you do have foes which use little or no skills. It's spamable, cheap, and quick. Unless you have a cheap spamable skill, if most of your skills are on RC or you don't have enough energy left to cast from a different foe, then there's very little you can do.

Jk Arrow · Aug 29, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Your first and second points are relevant. Bots are rampant and it's getting rarer to be in a match where someone doesn't leave after their team goes down 2 - 0. Played in one the other day where the Kurz side had 2 reported for bots and 3 leavers when the score was 4 - 1. The 3 people left were obviously not going to win. I understand people not wanting to waste their time knowing they will lose but they still get some faction for waiting out the match and it's clear it isn't going to last much longer. When I know my team is going to lose, I just start farming ranger shrines and helping get any carrier I can back.

I disagree with Wastrels. Sure it works well in JQ, it's the format that encourages a skill like that. There are other skills that you can abuse in this and other formats but I don't agree they should be banned because they work well in those situations. Builds become meta when they work well. Meta skills get nerfed/balanced. New builds become meta. Such is the cycle.

Andemius · Aug 29, 2011, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

I disagree with Wastrels. Sure it works well in JQ, it's the format that encourages a skill like that. There are other skills that you can abuse in this and other formats but I don't agree they should be banned because they work well in those situations. Builds become meta when they work well. Meta skills get nerfed/balanced. New builds become meta. Such is the cycle.

True, JQ does encourage skills like WD, but it is still OP. A mesmer at 16 Dom can kick across 150 damage with it. It's loads stronger than Weaken knees, which is elite. I'm not saying that WD should be sbooned immediately, even an increase in RC time would be good. The problem here is that this skill became meta because it was buffed, and has been in this state for a while with no hint of it being balanced. I can't honestly see anything else being seriously ran as optimal for a mesmer in JQ because of this.

Lithril Ashwalker · Aug 29, 2011, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by brawler

Also I do not think Mesmers are the largest of problems in JQ either. A few hex removals and they pretty much negated or someone using spells efficiently to combat WW and WD. Rather I believe the NPC AI needs to be greatly increased to combat such things, especially AoE. RoJ, SF, Necro bombers, etc. pretty much register NPC capture points useless because they are standing in blatant AoE and dieing because of it. Reworking the AI rather then the skills of the players (which also have a subsequent effect on other PvP game types too) would be preferred in my eyes.

If carriers are dieing because of a single Mesmer the appears that you need more healers to combat this, not reworking several skills.

err no...mes bots 10X worse with this and rupt a 1/4 second casting skill when equipped with them. hex removal is crap vs Wastrels anyway, easily reapplied for pressure..and its CONSTANT pressure. the recharge and energy for this type of skill is ridiculous

Prestige · Aug 29, 2011, 11:16 PM // 23:16

@To the Thread starter

WD is NOT your problem.
The thing you want fixed is that you want the NPCs to have spammable skills to use to counter that. Why nerf when others need a buff ? :P

Lithril Ashwalker · Aug 29, 2011, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Hex breaker on all npc's = wastrels from cappin ...WIN

Jeydra · Aug 30, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Weakest primary in JQ is Paragon, Rits are pretty weak too.

JQ balance is actually pretty OK. Mesmer is perhaps the most versatile class, but there are important things they can't do: defending carriers, running carriers and killing players. 30s cooldown on Chaos Storm is also significant: they can't cap without it. Bots are the biggest problem with JQ imo; if all the bots get banned then the format will be that much more fun.

Our Virus · Aug 30, 2011, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Weakest primary in JQ is Paragon

Can permanent daze casters, permanent cripple melee, auto attack carries to death, give permanent IMS to own carries, and have optionals all in the same build(without spreading attributes insanely low as well). Doesn't seem weak to me.

Anyway I don't think the problem in JQ isnt the wastrels skills. I honestly think it's the shrine ncp spawn location. Spread them put a little so one RoJ or a bomber can't wreck it in like 5seconds?

drkn · Aug 30, 2011, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Rits are pretty weak too.

Indeed, if you load your PvE SoS build. Just go resto and protect quarries and carriers, rits can do pretty much as well at it as monks.

Andemius · Aug 30, 2011, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

WD is NOT your problem.
The thing you want fixed is that you want the NPCs to have spammable skills to use to counter that. Why nerf when others need a buff ? :P

This would not counter the problem. The meta capping chain for quarries involved the npcs being on the floor for 3-4 seconds, and rupted the rest of the time.

Giving them all hex breaker seems a little OTT, but someone has said spacing could be improved, which is a thought, if they were better spread it would require more effort to cap.

Quote:

Chaos Storm is also significant: they can't cap without it

Sure they can, hell you can take a guard post with only WD. Quarries however can be taken with WD, WW, PI(e), and CoF.

Spacing out the quarry NPCs seems more targeted towards all capping. This wouldn't help the carriers though, WD still rips them apart.

X CDH X · Aug 30, 2011, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

Whaaaat? Warriors maybe, but dervs can cap (im yet to see it done effeciently), and sins are excellent for taking down cappers such as roj monks and mesmers, but you can kill carriers and keep healers busy which teammates are capping. I'd say a sin played well is far from useless.

FB! and MH! are fine, sometimes you just don't get a competent person to run with.

I like that mesmers need a bit of common sense to play properly, expecially with skills such as aneyurism, but i'd hesitate to say you need real life skills to play it any more that another profession. I'm not sure that buffing everything else to the OP level of mesmers is a good idea. I know para's aren't great in pvp, and i heard something about a buff for them, but that's a different matter. The problem, or at least my problem with mesmers, is the OPness of WD in JQ, where you do have foes which use little or no skills. It's spamable, cheap, and quick. Unless you have a cheap spamable skill, if most of your skills are on RC or you don't have enough energy left to cast from a different foe, then there's very little you can do.

Yes it is true playing melee at JQ is a fail killing the turtles is fair enough if you are winning, but if your team is losing and need to start capping shrine asap what can you do lol..............

Professions I think are good at JQ -

Monk - Mesmer - Necro - Ele - Ranger

Then ones I do not like -

Assassin - Warrior - Paragon - Rit - Dervish